Former first lady Michelle Obama compared student athlete admissions to diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) initiatives during a Wednesday episode of her “IMO” podcast. Speaking with comedian Josh Johnson, who discussed his experience of sometimes being “the only black person in the room,” Mrs. Obama weighed in on criticism surrounding the race-conscious admissions policies.

Johnson remarked, “It is funny because, like, you know, people talk about, like, DEI and some of these initiatives and everything. And the thing that’s always funny to me about the outrage is that y’all already have the number.” He suggested that out of 100 available spots, eight to 10 might be reserved for minorities or women, and that those limited positions often become the focus of controversy.

Johnson argued some individuals assume they were denied admission solely because of DEI programs, even amid broader backlash over policies that consider race and sex. “When it was just like 100 white slots, there was like the 101st white guy who couldn’t get in,” Johnson said. “So, it’s like, ‘You might not be able to beat other white people.’”

“And they probably won’t let you because they will keep changing the rules to keep being at the top,” Mrs. Obama responded. “My first realization of that came when I went to Princeton, right? Because I got, you know, applied, but my counselor said, ‘I don’t know if you’re Princeton material.’ Even though my brother was there, even though I was a top student, it was, like, so it set up this notion that this place is something really special,” she said.

Mrs. Obama added that she initially questioned whether she had been admitted as one of a small number of minority students. “And, so, I got in, and I go, and I’m thinking — you’re going with the insecurity that I only I got here because I was one of ‘the eight,’” she said. “But then I looked around, and I saw all kinds of ‘affirmative action’ that never got discussed, you know. Being the kid of an alum, being an athlete, being a, you know, and you realize that why are we only drilling down on these eight black kids that got in, just like you said, when all these other kids got in all kinds of ways that could be considered affirmative action.”

Last year, investigations were launched into 45 universities over alleged race-based admissions preferences, Breitbart News reported. President Donald Trump has advocated for admissions decisions based strictly on merit. His administration has directed colleges and universities that receive federal funding to provide detailed data on their admissions processes.

Under the directive, the National Center for Education Statistics (NCES) will gather admissions information from higher education institutions with the stated aim of ensuring that acceptance decisions are made solely on merit-based criteria.